Increasingly, design systems need to support multi-product ecosystems with a diverse array of consumers and stakeholders. This week, Chris Strahl sits down with Miranda Bouck from Instacart to explore the intricacies of managing a multi-faceted design system. Miranda delves into the challenges and strategies of balancing the diverse needs of consumer apps, internal apps, and enterprise retail partners, all while maintaining system flexibility and performance. Learn how Instacart's small but mighty design system team effectively supports a vast network of designers, developers, and business partners. Tune in for a fascinating discussion on pushing the boundaries of design systems in a complex ecosystem.
Guest
Miranda is a Staff Product Designer at Instacart, working on the Instacart Design System, Pantry. Her aim: build products that create an accessible, logical, and predictable user experience. Blueberries. They're always in my cart.
Transcript
Chris Strahl [00:00:00]:
Hi, welcome to the Design Systems Podcast. This is the place where we explore where design development and product overlap, hear from experts about their experiences and the lessons they've learned along the way, and get insights into the latest trends impacting digital product development and design systems from the people who pioneered the industry. As always, this podcast is brought to you by Knapsack. Check us out at knapsack.cloud.
If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn. You can find a direct link to our page in the show Notes. We'd love to hear from you.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Design Systems Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Strahl. Today I'm here with Miranda Bouck. Miranda is at Instacart. We're going to be talking a lot about how Instacart Systems work, both serving the internal needs of the organization as well as a whole bunch of different external consumers. But before we dive into that real quick, I want to just talk about two quick housekeeping things.
First of all, we're hosting a webinar about design tokens that Miranda is actually going to be a part of on the 26th of February. We're also going to welcome guest speakers Donnie D'Amato, Jackie Lai, and Chris Bloom.
And then secondly, on February 27th, we're going to be in San Francisco for our Leadership Summit. We used to call these the Design Systems Leadership Summits. We're now calling them Patterns Leadership Summits. We're co-hosting it with Figma. It's going to be really great. It's going to be their offices in San Francisco. If you're interested in coming, go ahead and head over to knapsack.cloud/events. Check it out there.
Without further ado, Miranda, welcome to the program. Super excited to have you here.
Miranda Bouck [00:01:19]:
Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.
Chris Strahl [00:01:22]:
So why don't you talk to me a little bit about your background in design systems? You come from an interesting place because the system used to work on, I used to highlight all the time, is a great example of how to serve both developer and designer personas.
Miranda Bouck [00:01:36]:
Yeah. So I got my start on design systems about seven years ago working on the Huddle design system called Uniform. Started on that original team to define what was going to be a design system at a company that didn't know what one was. All those typical problems that you run into when you realize you need a design system. So I was there working for about four and a half years. Then I decided to take a leap and came over to the Instacart design system, which is by and large very different than the previous design system I was on. And so I've been on that team for about two and a half years now.
Chris Strahl [00:02:11]:
Awesome. So tell me a little bit about how the Instacart design system is structured. I think most of our listeners have heard of Instacart. We understand that it's about the ability to get food delivery or grocery delivery or whatever from a bunch of different restaurants, grocery stores, places of business, et cetera. But like, how does a design system function in that context?
Miranda Bouck [00:02:31]:
Yeah. So the Instacart design system is really interesting because we're not only serving just the consumer app, which you and I probably use every week, maybe more depending on how hungry you are. But. But we've also got the shopper side of it. Right. So it's not just about the people who are buying the groceries, it's the people who are picking up the groceries. And things look different between those two interfaces. And then we've also got our enterprise side of the house, which is, you know, the big retailers that you can go into individually and they've got their own sites and interfaces powered by Instacart, which you would never know because we support theming.
Chris Strahl [00:03:09]:
Exactly. So you have these kind of three big wildly different groups of users with wildly different needs where you have that innate sort of two sided marketplace, which is a lot like many two sided marketplaces that have emerged, where you have a bunch of people selling goods and you play that connector to a bunch of people that then want to buy those goods from those people. But you also then have further stratification of like this isn't just an app that's on your phone or a website you visit. This is something that has sort of a white labeled capability inside of a bunch of different major enterprise retailers and then also something that exists just for shoppers themselves. That's a ton of stuff. And those are really, really different needs. Is that all one system for you?
Miranda Bouck [00:03:55]:
All it is. Currently we've got multiple different types of systems, systems all wrapped up into one set of code. We've got our legacy system which is what is found on our shopper side. We've got our new system which is found on the consumer side and that new system then segments further to the retailer side. So it's all the same code, it just renders in different ways.
Chris Strahl [00:04:17]:
So when you think about that, that's a truly interesting model that relies very heavily on flexibility. You're not just building components for something that you control wholly. You're actually building for an ecosystem where those people, like, they may not be introducing a bunch of custom componentry, but they're certainly theming it the way that their site works or behaves or looks. And then likewise you have two different, like very fundamentally different app experiences. When you're thinking about how you architect and make stuff for that. Like, this is what I would love to explore. When you think about a component that has to work across all of those different aspects, what goes into that decision making process? Because presumably you don't have some very purpose built thing of a checkout component that exists everywhere. You probably have stuff that is like, hey, this is how I pick things or look at products or something like that.
But what distinguishes those and how do you serve those more unique needs?
Miranda Bouck [00:05:20]:
The easiest way to describe it is pulling a box out from under your bed and opening it to see what kind of stuff you got in there.
Chris Strahl [00:05:29]:
Oh dear.
Miranda Bouck [00:05:29]:
It could be anything! It could be anything. When we're thinking about something like a checkbox or you know, even an input, for example, when it comes to shoppers, right, like thinking about their use case and what they would actually need to input, their needs are quite different than if you're going to Kroger's site or Sprouts site and needing to choose how many items you're going to put into a cart, right? And so we have to think about the environment in which it's actually going to be portrayed, who's actually using it, because the mindset of that person actually using the site or the app is very different. And so when we think about an input from a shopper's perspective, they don't need to take the time to think about what that input is actually saying. Like they should know, right? Innately I'm picking up a pair and I need to choose a pair. Well, they need to know quantity, they need to confirm quantity. So text size of the input, for example, is much different than I need to select one from a cart in my Kroger cart, for example. So we've got a lot of spatial things to think about.
We've got type size, we've got color, we've got space, all of that. That really is what we have to think about. And the bits and bobs inside of an input rarely change, fortunately, at least from both the consumer and the shopper side. Enterprise, though, is a different story. We could be including some sort of a leading icon, we could be supporting some kind of trailing text and so what we do is talk to those designers on those surfaces to ask them what are your customers, who are the retailers asking for? What do they need? What makes them different compared to the Instacart? Apple?
Chris Strahl [00:07:16]:
Yeah, because I mean you can buy a lot of stuff with Instacart. Like you can go shop for like makeup at Ulta, or you can go get dumplings from Wajimaya, or like golf clubs from Dick's. Like that's a gigantic diversity of product. What sort of trade offs do you make? Or do you see the retail partners working with inside of the design system? Or is it just so customers that you pretty much are able to accommodate whatever a retailer requires?
Miranda Bouck [00:07:50]:
Yeah, actually it's a lot of smart defaults. And the reason that we do that is because all of our retailers aren't all the same size. Right. Like you're talking about the big guys in the world. We've got the Kroger's, we've got the Wegmans, we've got the Sprouts, but we've also got, you know, mom and dad down the street. They don't have the time, they don't have a brand team, they don't have any sense of what it's like to set up a storefront. So they lean on Instacart to do that for them. So our design system comes with those smart defaults for them, but we give them the capability to actually change and modify as needed.
So there is opportunity for custom components, there is opportunity for custom styling. But we also want to make sure that we're available for the people that don't have that time or effort or availability to make those changes. They just want to get up and go.
Chris Strahl [00:08:40]:
So my cousin happens to have a wine shop around Chelsea Market in Manhattan. And so he's got, you know, a pretty remarkable amount of SKUs for a wine shop. Like they do all sorts of things. They have Instacart delivery. If you were using Instacart for them, like them as a three person organization in Manhattan is not going to take the time to make sure all their products look right in a catalog. They're at best going to say like, here's a spreadsheet, here's some data about how we can get these up there. But that then becomes like a core part of their E commerce platform. And so for them, like Instacart is the way they sell wine.
And so when you think about that, like that's a pretty huge responsibility for what ultimately represents a relatively small business. And then you also have Kroger or Rite Aid or. Right. And so when you think about those sorts of things, where you do have like entire teams that are going to be interacting with that system, with that catalog that also then have their own e commerce sites in and of themselves, what kind of difference in the implementation of the design system exists between like my cousin's wine shop and say, Staples?
Miranda Bouck [00:09:56]:
Yeah. Depending on where they are, it could be the exact same thing, or there could be a little bit of unique implementation. When you think about viewing a storefront inside of the Marketplace app, it all kind of has the same structure. You've got the same header, you've got some colors. It looks a little bit more like the retailer, but it definitely feels like you're inside the Instacart ecosystem. Whereas when you've got a retailer's e commerce storefront and you're on their domain, they want to have that additional onus of, no, you're not on Rite Aid, that looks like Instacart, you're on Rite Aid. Right. And so there is some level of implementation detail that becomes available through our theming for those brands.
We've got tooling that allows those configurations to be made based on whatever the retailer wants. Those aren't the things available out of the box for the everyman when it comes to setting up your storefront. It's the stuff that becomes available for those people that have an opinion on making their site theirs.
Chris Strahl [00:11:02]:
That's really interesting. So can everybody have an opinion? So if my cousin's wine shop was like, I totally want like a very custom e commerce storefront, like that would be possible given Yora's implementation of theming.
Miranda Bouck [00:11:16]:
Implementation for theming would allow that to happen. Yeah.
Chris Strahl [00:11:19]:
Fascinating. So when you think about that, like, what does that look like from a consumer experience? Is that like, hey, here's a theme engine and I'm like clicking color swatches and applying type styles and stuff like that, or is it a lot more like a back end thing? What is the level of product exposure that you get as someone trying to create a custom storefront?
Miranda Bouck [00:11:38]:
I'll take it from the mom and pop shop down the street. They will get a tooling interface that they get to log in on our platform that allows them to choose their main colors, upload a typeface, make their site look like their own, and if they want additional customizations, then they can work with their team to make those customizations happen. But we surface things like color, we surface type so that they're allowed and enabled to make it look like their own. And that includes everything from what a link color looks like or how a icon could possibly look. If they have an icon set to a complete unique item card, if that's something that's important to them, that's amazing.
Chris Strahl [00:12:23]:
And so what you're delivering then is a window into your design system that is like a capital P product inside of your organization, where like you're not just building a design system to go build something that you all use, you're actually selling that as a value added service to those, you know, big enterprise retailers, all the way down to the small mom and pop stores. And that exposure is actually a part of the design system that is a core implementation piece of how the design system ultimately affects an experience or creates an experience is what you're actually handing over to somebody outside of your organization.
Miranda Bouck [00:13:01]:
Yeah, because we're going to define all those root details for them, but we don't need them to think about every single bit and piece of it. Right. Like they care about the primary color of their buttons. They want that to look like their brand. They're not going to think about what a hover state looks like, what an active state does. That's what we're going to do for them and we can provide that for them very easily. Yeah.
Chris Strahl [00:13:22]:
And I think that I really want to just stress that curated experience because this is where I think a lot of the interesting stuff works for you all. Because if I think about other systems that are structured in a similar way, you have things like Salesforce Lightning or Shopify Polaris that are out there that are helping people build their own applications on top of a design system in a way that is relatively core to the business. But I think that for you all in particular, this is in large part your core product as a company is the ability to create these storefronts that look and feel and act a particular way. And having that all not just be driven by the design system, but be the design system in and of itself. That's pretty unique. And that's also really challenging because you have presumably tens if not hundreds of thousands of users that are working in this every single day that have demands that are very unlike other design system demands where, you know, if you're a retailer that's predominantly focused on your own E commerce platform and the design system for that, that's an ecosystem you fully control. If you're talking to petsmart like they want to control that ecosystem and that's a very different user than I think most people have to consider yeah.
Miranda Bouck [00:14:37]:
And it's very opinionated for the right reasons. Right. When you think about any brand, not just retailers, but your brand is your business. And so you want to be opinionated. You want to make sure it's represented the way that is in your guide or that resonates with your users. Right. Because if your primary color is blue and suddenly your buttons are red, people are going to start wondering, wait, am I where I'm supposed to be? I'm going to go someplace else.
Chris Strahl [00:15:04]:
Hey everyone, I'd like to take a quick break and tell you about Knapsack's leadership summits. Every month we host an exclusive in person event in different cities all around the country, bringing together design, engineering and product leaders. These summits are all about sharing our learning with tailored discussions to address the challenges you're facing. The best part, it's totally free. Head over to knapsack.cloud/events to find an upcoming summit near you and apply to join us. We'd love to see you there.
Chris Strahl [00:15:48]:
And then I think another part of it just to kind of bring it back around again, is you have two other app experiences as well, which are much more wholly controlled by you. Where you have your shopper app where it's like, hey, people going around picking stuff off shelves, and then the app that you and I have that like, allows us to actually order stuff. And so the design system powers those things as well. And so in that case, I think it's less unusual to say, like, look, I have an app that is for one group of users, an app that's for another group of users. They share a lot of things inside of a common design system.
But thinking about all three of those things all under one roof, that's a bit mind blowing to me because that's a tremendous amount of really diverse user needs that have to have a very solid foundation of common purpose around. How do you approach that problem? I don't know another way to ask this. I like to be a little bit more pointed in my questioning, but that just seems so daunting. It'd be like trying to swim up a waterfall. Like, how do you approach that?
Miranda Bouck [00:16:33]:
It's difficult. And I don't say that lightly and I don't say that easily. When you think about meeting the needs of all of these different products, you have to strip away all of the fluff. Right. There's so many different use cases that may be multiplied on a single product, but it would have absolutely no use on another. And you don't want to introduce bloat to the Design system. Because if everybody's importing all of these components, then suddenly we have latency problems to think about. Right.
Chris Strahl [00:17:05]:
You have a lot more runtime issues to deal with, I imagine, than a lot of people do.
Miranda Bouck [00:17:09]:
Absolutely. We have to think about just because this is 0.2 KB of an ad, what's that actually going to do when somebody has to load our app? And so we really try our hardest to strip it down to the core functionality of any component and think about, okay, if we want to be able to enable. I'll go back to the input example. Enable a description or a hint text in a way that actually makes sense for one product over another. We have to be very intentional on where we place that, why we place it, is it actually relevant to all of these different products? And we start really small. And you can always add later. Right. It's much easier to start small, add and then go back versus we added all this stuff, we think you're going to use it and then no one does and you've added all this bloat for no reason.
Chris Strahl [00:18:06]:
Right. It's that age old problem of like adopting a framework versus rolling your own. Right. Like the idea of I'm going to go use just to pick on Tailwind. And by the way, we use Tailwind. So like there's a customer picking on a vendor a little bit. But like, you know, you get tailwind, you get all of Tailwind, which is a really great starting point, but you also get all of Tailwind, which means you have to like tear a bunch of it out if you're not going to use it. And I think that it is interesting to see that problem applied to design systems where most of your users don't work for Instacart.
That to me is in and of itself like a pretty fascinating statement is you probably have, I don't know, just as a random guess, like 20 times the users outside of your walls as a company is inside. And so those needs are important, but it's also a lot more indirect. And so how do you make sure you're giving them a really great experience, which is I think a little bit different than trying to make sure that those internal users have a great experience. How does that tension play out in the real world when you think about the developers, designers, et cetera, that are building the Shopper app and the Shopee app, when you think about those users versus the myriads, the thousands of people that are then building for partners.
Miranda Bouck [00:19:20]:
Yeah, there's different structures when it comes to corralling that information, obviously it's much easier to reach out to designers and engineers within our own teams because we have things like Slack at our disposal. It's very quick and easy. Be like, hey, this isn't working or I ran into this PR in GitHub and I need some help. But when it comes to working with a retail partner, they don't have that and they're working their full time job at the same time we are. We can't always be a full support service either because we've got to be building new things for them. And so there is a different way for us to cascade some of that information. Retailers have a very strong relationship with their BD teams, which is business development. And they've got specific people that they work with and a specific through line to those people if there's a new change or a new addition or something that's gonna happen that they wanna take on.
The same is true if we have new things that we wanna implement, if we're gonna create a new feature, we meet with the retailers and present that to them so they can see and have them give their feedback. And so it's a much closer back and forth between retailers than I think most people imagine. It's just not as fast as something internally. But whenever there's a problem or something that arises, it's flagged to us in almost the same way. It just depends on how quickly.
Chris Strahl [00:20:44]:
So those BD teams that are ultimately responsible for that customer relationship, they're operating this like success land where they're trying to make sure that they're a voice for that customer or that set of customers that they work with. So they're also really aware of the design system and its use. Do they think about it as the design system or do they just think about it as the product that their team has sold to this retail partner?
Miranda Bouck [00:21:06]:
I think it's a bit of both. Mainly because they know what it looks like out of the box, they know what we would provide them without any customizations. But they're also intimately aware of the configurations and customizations that each of our retailers ask for. And so in a way, it's like their own personal baby to take care of. Because if something's wrong, I'll say, for example, an edit button doesn't work when you're trying to change your delivery location on an E commerce site. They're going to know about it and they're going to flag it really quickly because they're on those sites day in and day out helping qa, making sure. That the features we've promised operate the way that they do and they're familiar enough with the design system to say, hey, I think there's an override from something that shouldn't be here. We need to fix this now.
Chris Strahl [00:21:55]:
Absolutely fascinating. I think that it's really incredible that there's a team that is simultaneously selling, measuring that success and then also like really advocating for the support of the customer in terms of new features, in terms of stuff that's broken. It's an interesting kind of way of federating the feedback that you get around your system. And presumably there's a lot of data that supports this as well. And so you're collecting data from how people are consuming and using the design system ultimately at that partner level as well. How do you all go about doing that? And like, obviously without spilling the beans on any sort of special sauce. But are you sitting there looking at like how people utilize components and how they customize them? Are you looking at the metrics for how people deviate from common patterns? Like, what is it that's out there that you're really trying to focus in on?
Miranda Bouck [00:22:44]:
Yeah, we are just really starting to get into deep telemetry of our own components, trying to figure out what the usage is between a retailer site or our own consuming site. And that's been really eye opening because you can't use something like Figma as your source of truth when it comes to, you know, detached instances inside of a mock. Right. Because that's not your product, that's what you want it to look like. So we have to be able to track that somehow for each of those sites. And there's a few different ways. We've obviously got the beginnings of that telemetry, but we're also doing a little bit of manual work where when we come across something or we see those intake requests from BD come in, we're able to start essentially a tally system. If we see one retailer, which I won't name that wants to create a unique dropdown for selecting specific brands by using some sort of imagery or iconography, they can do that.
Miranda Bouck [00:23:43]:
And then you would be probably not as surprised when other retailers suddenly want to do the same thing. And so we start seeing some tallies come around where like, okay, our retailer partners want this kind of a configuration available, but we have no need for that inside of the consumer app. So maybe that is something that we build in as a baseline for those E commerce sites that are available for our enterprise partners. That becomes like the next level of the base component and our data is starting to tell us those things. Because just because we create something that's small and unique and simple at its base and we add on as we need to, doesn't mean that the base is actually what the base should be for our retailer partners, if that makes sense.
Chris Strahl [00:24:32]:
So there's almost like this additional layer that's there that allows for another level of, like, override, maybe is the right word, enhancement. It's back to the idea of modularity and how do you think about, like, extensible modular stuff? And so when you have that, I imagine that's where most of your platform flexibility works. And then you can take those things that you've built to be flexible and either roll them into the core system or implement them multiple times.
Miranda Bouck [00:25:01]:
Yep, exactly that. It's how do we give them the configuration and customization they desire while powering and harnessing their site using the data that Instacart gets from every transaction through its consuming app? That is the secret sauce, really. Right. Because they shouldn't be knowing all of that information. We have that information for them. They can build upon that so they can focus on other things that are important to them.
Chris Strahl [00:25:27]:
Yeah. And I mean, that seems like a core part of the value. Right. So I'm small. Right. If I'm a small retailer and I need to be better at some part of my retail operations, being able to have that data and not just have it, but actually have it be implemented for me, that's really powerful.
Miranda Bouck [00:25:44]:
Yeah.
Chris Strahl [00:25:45]:
Back to the consumer app side of things, too. I mean, I'm sure you have the traditional design system struggles, trials and tribulations, successes that we all go through, powering an app off of a design system. But you all also have, like, a really strong bias towards native mobile. And so when you think about that idea of how does that native mobile ecosystem, that web ecosystem, that partner ecosystem, all intersections, it's yet another sort of confounding complicating factor. Talk to me a little bit about how you think about servicing that side of the environment, or app environment, as it were.
Miranda Bouck [00:26:22]:
Our matrix just keeps getting more and more complicated, if you haven't noticed. We've got all these different brand types, these different themes, these different ecosystems, and now you've got platforms and other things to consider, and it's just a lot. And when it comes to releasing a component for our design system, we think of releasing a component as a solid unit for all of them. Because we keep things so simple at the beginning, we are able to say we're going to release this on web, iOS and Android from the start and that can be available to everyone. All they have to do is update their package and they've got it. And that's really, really powerful because then we can start getting data on how people are using it, how frequently, what the needs are, what we need to prioritize first. But you're right, iOS and Android are definitely first class at Instacart. But that doesn't mean that we also forget web because the opposite is true when it comes to our retailer partners.
Miranda Bouck [00:27:26]:
Actually they prefer desktop. That is their, you know, golden star. And so we have a spectrum that helps keep us in line because even though we're thinking and releasing native first for consumer app, we've got those retailers that we know are going to expect that on their desktop web experience immediately. So that kind of keeps us in check.
Chris Strahl [00:27:46]:
Yeah, and as somebody that typically shuns native apps that prefers a web environment, I really do appreciate that.
Miranda Bouck [00:27:53]:
You're not alone. I also shop on the web.
Chris Strahl [00:27:56]:
Yeah, it's one of those things where it's funny, right? Like within the walls of Knapsack there's several people that are pretty deep into the native ecosystems that will literally buy like hundreds of apps and I have like 20. And people always think I'm the weirdo and like, I don't know, I can't.
Miranda Bouck [00:28:11]:
Make a $3,000 purchase on my phone. I just can't do that for some reason.
Chris Strahl [00:28:15]:
That's kind of how I feel and maybe that's my age talking. I don't know. It's also why my entire house is wired instead of wireless, which I think also freaks a lot of people out. I mean I have a WI fi router. I'm not a savvy.
Miranda Bouck [00:28:25]:
Hey, I mean the home phone is making a comeback. So you' up already?
Chris Strahl [00:28:29]:
Yeah, I don't know about that. But I mean at least my entire ecosystem works. I don't have to fiddle with Bluetooth every time. Anyway, that aside, I think that the ability to say, we're simultaneously saying our multi platform delivery is going to happen across our whole ecosystem all at once like that to me feels like the real power of that single central system because by having it all be in one place, there's nobody that gets left out. Now I'm sure it's a lot more work but at the same time the ability to have it just basically say like I've made something new and it's now available everywhere to everyone to be able to use it, that's a really powerful way of driving an ecosystem that I'm sure also causes your users to want to keep coming back. Because no matter what platform you're working on, the solution's there.
Miranda Bouck [00:29:20]:
Absolutely. We weren't always there. Right. Like, the availability problem is not one that's unique to us. That plagues probably every design system. You've got engineers on iOS that are looking for something that may not be implemented at all or the same. You've got misaligned properties. You know, functionality is different.
Chris Strahl [00:29:38]:
I mean, just tokens between native ecosystems and web. It's just like there's so much that's translated.
Miranda Bouck [00:29:44]:
There's so much. And to give a centralized place for all that information is priceless for all the people that are building on it. But it's also a ton of documentation and it's a ton of communication. How do you teach these people where to find that information? Because we're also still a small team. We can't answer questions all day, every day. We're here to help, but we also need to provide information that helps people self serve so that they can keep going. When you're powering a product team of our size, you have to be able to have information you can point back to so that people can grab that information and go. Because there's no way we can keep up otherwise.
Chris Strahl [00:30:24]:
So how big is the design systems team at instacart?
Miranda Bouck [00:30:26]:
We are 12 people, and that's just because we hired three.
Chris Strahl [00:30:31]:
So you're 12 people. And how many designers and engineers do you support across the organization?
Miranda Bouck [00:30:36]:
I think probably about 3,500.
Chris Strahl [00:30:40]:
Yeah, that's amazing. That kind of ratio shows the power of systems. Right? Like the fact that the software that you create powers the experience that 3,500 people are creating with every single day. And I mean, I imagine if you include your partners, that number explodes.
Miranda Bouck [00:30:55]:
Absolutely.
Chris Strahl [00:30:56]:
But that's a pretty remarkable thing for 12 people to make. Miranda, thank you so much for sharing this. This has been a remarkable story and I really just appreciate your openness and willing to talk about this. It's really incredible to hear what you all have accomplished within a really small team. And it kind of showcases a great, dare I say, high watermark for how design systems can really help shape organizations.
Miranda Bouck [00:31:18]:
Thanks so much for having me. This was a blast.
Chris Strahl [00:31:21]:
Awesome. Well, hey everybody, this has been the design systems podcast again. Those events I mentioned in the pre roll, if you want to check them out, head over to knapsack.cloud/events. Have a great day, everybody.
Hey everyone, thanks for listening to another episode of the Design Systems Podcast. If you have any questions, topic suggestions, or want to share feedback, go ahead and reach out to us on LinkedIn. Our profile is linked in the show Notes. As always, the podcast is brought to you by Knapsack. Check us out at Knapsack.cloud. Have a great day everyone.